Kvetch » Bachelor/Bachelorette Parties » Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong
 Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887318] |
Fri, 01 August 2008 19:57  |
 EnragedNumbness
Messages: 4
Registered: August 2008
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Ok, here goes.
I've actually had to sign up after lurking for hours, just to write this out, get some feedback, and most importantly to get this off my chest. I've agreed w/ FH not to discuss this with friends - but frankly, I'm too humiliated to do so anyhow.
Before I get into it - I will say this; we have been going to some counseling sessions before the wedding (in 1 week, 1 day btw) and he has agreed to discuss this at our next appt. I have a feeling we will be discussing this for a long time.
Bachelor party night, now 6 days ago. BestMan threw this.
I knew there would be strippers - didn't care about it. Just because I know FH didn't care much about the strippers either, in this words "Seen one pair, seem 'em all." I had a lot of trust and confidence that he wouldn't do anything to disrespect our relationship or me mostly because he never has given me a reason to doubt him.
That night, he stopped home around 9pm to get his ID that he forgot, and said to me that he was mad at BestMan because apparently BestMan had told the strippers to get on FH which he said he was not ok with. So I asked him what happened, and he said that the strippers stripped down naked, which he was surprised about (SAME HERE) and that they kept trying to get him to do things to them. He said he didn't touch them, but at one point his penis popped out of his boxers and it was rubbed up against. He said nothing more happened, no penetration, he got up after that because he was really uncomfortable. So I said, OK. I wasn't upset, I believed everything he told me.
The next day he was acting very odd. Almost guilty. He suddenly started saying that he was really nervous about getting any STD's from that "incident" last night, to which I reassured him that there's probably not much to worry about, but if going to the Dr made him feel better than to do it. I thought I was being pretty fucking CALM for having just told my fiance to chill out about STD's from some stripper. Then I started getting little bits of information that was very much contradictory to the previous night's conversation. Things like, the stripped and him were somewhat "alone" and that she had been putting his hands on her hips and that she was kissing his cheeks/neck area while dancing.
We then had a family event we both had to attend, so that info had to be put on the back burner for a few hours. But I started thinking, WTF - why were they ever alone, I thought this was supposed to be an "entertainment show" for all the guys, why was he letting her kiss him and WTF else is he not telling me.
That night I sat him down and said, we are getting married in 2 weeks. I feel like you're not being straight with me, and lying to me about what happened is so much worse than whatever happened. I need you to be honest with me because I don't want to start a marriage off like this. He sat there for a long time and I started to realize that this "incident" part of the night had to be a lot more than penis popping out and stopping the dance or whatever was going on. That also explained the guilt he was displaying. So I asked him if there was "slippage" AKA penetration that was previously denied. He said there was.
He said it was just once in, then he pushed her off in shock and that he didn't want that to happen. He said he felt really uncomfortable the entire time, and that he feels very violated.
He basically equated it to rape, since he said he certainly did not want to have sex with her. He also said that he didn't want to hurt me, which is why he didn't want to tell me because he really does want to marry me and didn't want this incident to be the end of us.
This is where my confusion comes in.
I feel betrayed that he let it get that far to where this situation could occur. I realize that he felt under pressure by the guys - but I also feel like he put their feelings before mine. I'm also REALLY upset that he lied to me.
At the same time, was my FH "raped"?? I almost feel badly that I'm so mad at him because he says that his bachelor party was ruined by this and that he's quite upset and feels like he's been violated. This is also why he's so worried about an STD, because there in fact was penetration.
I also am now left wondering - did he tell me everything that happened? Is what he says the whole truth? I feel like our trust has been shattered.
I can't get this out of my head. I keep thinking "He had sex with a stripper". I know he didn't (well I guess technically he DID), but my mind keeps going over and over those words.
We haven't slept together since (it's been a week), and we usually do every night. AHHHHHHHHH I hate this, I need someone's input PLEASE. Sorry for the length of this post.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887327] |
Fri, 01 August 2008 20:49  |
hmmm
Messages: 654
Registered: November 2006
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To me, it sounds like he did experience a rape. I think he put himself in a bad situation and should have put a stop to things way before, shouldn't have been alone with her, etc. But if a girl is dressed too provocatively and alone with some guy, that doesn't negate her being violated.
I understand your feelings of shattered trust, and I have been cheated on. I understand how you have been hurt, your boundaries were violated. And I understand how that complicates feeling empathetic. I think that counseling, as you have already planned, is the best route. I'll be keeping well wishes for you in my thoughts.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887329] |
Fri, 01 August 2008 20:54 |
Archy
Messages: 1161
Registered: March 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA |
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Oh, damn, I'm so sorry this happened.
First and most importantly, he not only had sex with a stripper, he had unprotected sex with a stripper. Any stripper who would allow a dick inside her without protection is probably closer to a prostitute than a stripper. DO NOT have sex with him at least until he is fully cleared of STDs, which may take several months as many STDs will not show up on tests right away.
Two: I find his claim of 'rape' frankly offensive. There certainly is such a thing as male rape, but I don't think it involves standing up on your own accord, walking into a room with a woman, shutting the door behind you, and getting naked. I believe that he was horrified when he realized the mistake he just made - but he made a mistake, he was not forced to put his dick inside of another woman. And the fact that he lied about it at first makes me think that he is still 'protecting' you from the complete ugly truth.
I really feel for you, what a terrible thing to have happen so soon before your wedding! It sounds like you're wanting to stay with FH, do I have that part right? Maybe you could start by writing a list of what you need to be comfortable with that discussion - it could include things like 100% disclosure (and you are certainly justified in having doubts that you've gotten that), his agreement to continue counseling after the wedding, to never be at a BP again, etc., etc. I don't know. I'm trying to think of what I would do in your shoes RE the wedding and I just don't know. On the one hand, it does sound like this was a drunken, terrible horrible mistake, and that the two of you maybe will be able to get past it. On the other hand I can't imagine standing in front of friends and family saying marriage vows when that healing hasn't happened yet - and it won't, not in a week.
Good luck. And get some sleep, it always helps.
The Indiebride Vow
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887334] |
Fri, 01 August 2008 21:00 |
Archy
Messages: 1161
Registered: March 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA |
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| hmmm wrote on Fri, 01 August 2008 20:49 |
To me, it sounds like he did experience a rape. I think he put himself in a bad situation and should have put a stop to things way before, shouldn't have been alone with her, etc. But if a girl is dressed too provocatively and alone with some guy, that doesn't negate her being violated.
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Just wanted to follow up - I respect hmmmm, but I think I still disagree. I mean - did he say, "No"? Did he take off his own clothes? Although, I will say, if he was drunk enough, then I suppose I can muster up some agreement and empathy for him.
Male rape is such a difficult and fraught thing, and we really don't know enough about what happened to make a judgement call on whether he was in fact raped. I keep typing more and deleting it, I guess I should just leave it at that.
The Indiebride Vow
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887341] |
Fri, 01 August 2008 21:11 |
EnragedNumbness
Messages: 4
Registered: August 2008
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I'll mention this, because I forgot in my OP.
At the beginning of the "Stipper Entertainment", they stripped him down to his boxers, and they stripped naked - everyone was laughing, cheering - he said at this point it was just funny and not overly uncomfortable because it was a "show".
It was after this first 10 minutes, that everyone kind of moved away to drink more (about 30 feet - it was at a location I know about, and the layout of where they were in relation to the rest of the crowd is still within eyeshot, but probably not earshot).
He was lying on a picknic table and she was dancing above him. He said he was uncomfortable with it because everyone sort of left him and said she then laid on top of him and sort of grinded up and down on him and that's when penis popped out of boxers and there was "slippage".
Then, as the story goes, she was pushed off and everything ended.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887346] |
Fri, 01 August 2008 21:17 |
Archy
Messages: 1161
Registered: March 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA |
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I just don't know. I believe that he feels terrible, I believe that he wishes it never happened, and I believe that looking back on it he feels like 'it just happened'. But I also believe that if my husband had his boxers on, and his penis was hanging out of the pee-hole thing, I wouldn't logistically be able to get him inside of me by just grinding on top of him - it would take some purposeful placement effort on at least one of our parts. Then again, I'm no professional!
And in any event -- does it matter? You know that he was drunk, and you believe that his remorse is sincere. To me, it seems like the one thing that's still needed to be able to say with confidence 'we'll get past this' is that you feel sure that you now have the complete and honest truth.
The Indiebride Vow
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887349] |
Fri, 01 August 2008 21:24 |
hmmm
Messages: 654
Registered: November 2006
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| Archy wrote on Fri, 01 August 2008 21:17 |
To me, it seems like the one thing that's still needed to be able to say with confidence 'we'll get past this' is that you feel sure that you now have the complete and honest truth.
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I agree 100%. There is no resolution without the truth. With complete disclosure healing can begin, any new detail is akin to ripping off the scab and starting over.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887385] |
Fri, 01 August 2008 23:15 |
Married Lady
Messages: 113
Registered: May 2007
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Enraged numbness:
A thought my husband just brought up:
IF your FH truly feels he was raped, he should press charges. Although, I think it would be very hard to prove being it was a BP with strippers with alcohol involved. If he is that adamant about it, he might consider reporting it as a crime.
If he said NO to her and she kept him down and somehow got him inside of her against his will, that is rape and I don't think most strippers would put themselves in that situation. But, there are always exceptions.
IMO,I think it would be difficult to prove your FH was raped, but, I am curious as to what your FH thinks.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887401] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 00:24 |
sophia
Messages: 777
Registered: October 2005
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Married Lady,
I agree with much of what you say, but this time you have to be kidding about pressing charges. I mean this guy is going to press charges against a stripper for raping him at his bp??? Is there no end to what women will make themselves believe, to escape the reality of the facts.
More importantly, it makes a farce of the very real crime of rape.
The reality is that the likelihood that he was coerced is minscule compared to the likelihood that he is lying about what he did. What are we going to have now--an epidemic of men pressing charges against strippers every time they get caught going to far. Strippers have been called many things, but rapists is certainly a new one.
I think for a man to move on, he should take ownership of what he did, acknowledge it was wrong and hurtful, and never do it again. Blaming it on his friends (the usual scenario), or on the stripper (now, that is a new one), is ridiculous.
Strippers do what they do for money. She wouldn't have touched him without being paid money to do so. And she was paid extra to have sex with him. I think it is safe to assume that most strippers would be happy to take the money and not provide the service, but believing that they would provide the service without being paid, and indeed would coerce an unwilling man (and therefore one who couldn't have paid) into sex is the height of denial.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887402] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 00:34 |
Petra
Messages: 734
Registered: May 2008
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I think the stripper would have asked first beforehand, because she'd want to negotiate the price. It's called a dip. (I learned that on page 10 of this thread.)
Either Best Man knew or your FH knew before she did it. I don't really see how or why a stripper would put a man's penis in her vagina without asking - when she's getting paid to put on a show and if she does something the guy doesn't want the show ends and she stops making money.
So maybe there's a teeny tiny chance the Best Man told her it was ok beforehand. But it strains credulity that no one knew she was going to do this.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 00:37]
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887410] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 01:47 |
CammieCakes
Messages: 24
Registered: February 2008
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This sucks. I'm so sorry. I think his claim of rape is offensive, ridiculous, and maniplative. I hate to be harsh, but after the "slippage" or the next day when he was sober he probably realized what a horrifying mistake he made. Now he is claiming "rape" so that he can explain his needs of an STD test and play on your sympathy and empathy so that you will forgive him. He is trying to place blame on the stripper when he is the one that let it get that far. To me it sounds like an excuse from the harsh reality. What about the stripper? I'm sure she felt pretty damn violated. Yes she was naked, and frolicking, but I'm sure she never signed up for penetration. Otherwise, both parties would have known about it and cash would have been exchanged. Did your FH not notice his happy part out of his pants? Or was it out the entire time while she was girating and kissing him? Did he ever push her off or say "no" if he was that uncomfortable? No one was around so he wouldn't have been "teased" about it if he wanted it to end. The fact is that he let it continue because he wanted it to continue. Has he done any follow up, such as phoning the company and filing a complaint? Did he flip out and start crying when this happened or call for help from his friends? Did he say anything to her? Or did his friends high five him and pat him on the back? Did the party continue and did he put his pants back on after the incident happened? Or did the strip show continue? I know if this happened to me I would be extremely upset and would want to end the night and leave the premises immediately. Plus, I would tell my FH immediately about the violation. I would not lie about it. I do not deny that he is sorry about what he did. I just think he is trying to shift the reality of what happened so it doesn't sound as bad as it really is.
Please wear protection until he gets tested.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 02:26]
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887473] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 12:16 |
sandie
Messages: 120
Registered: September 2006
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| Quote: |
At the beginning of the "Stipper Entertainment", they stripped him down to his boxers, and they stripped naked - everyone was laughing, cheering - he said at this point it was just funny and not overly uncomfortable because it was a "show".
It was after this first 10 minutes, that everyone kind of moved away to drink more (about 30 feet - it was at a location I know about, and the layout of where they were in relation to the rest of the crowd is still within eyeshot, but probably not earshot).
He was lying on a picknic table and she was dancing above him. He said he was uncomfortable with it because everyone sort of left him and said she then laid on top of him and sort of grinded up and down on him and that's when penis popped out of boxers and there was "slippage".
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I'm just a prude, but I would't marry the guy even if there wasn't slippage." He and his friends are just revolting. I also think the term slippage is really "endearing." For godsake he fucked the stripper. Stop being a moron. I apologize for not being supportive. I'm sure you are having a hard time. I just don't get how encouraging you to marry this man helps you. Someone on here had a brilliant quote, which I need to try and find. Something along the lines of "when someone shows you who they are, listen." I originally came to this board because something like this happened to a friend, and she found out about it the day of the wedding, and walked down the aisle with her eyes red from crying. This week she filed for divorce. Apparently his bp was not an isolated incident. Maybe it will work out for you differently. But there is just so much wrong with this whole story.
Take care of yourself first. I don't care who you are, you deserve better.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 12:17]
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887487] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 13:39 |
Elaine
Messages: 711
Registered: May 2008
Location: Vancouver |
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Good grief, "he fucked a stripper"? Fucking implies that he was actually doing something, not lying there then pushing her off after a second.
I don't have much advice to give, except that I feel terribly for you. I can tell you what I would do in your situation though. If you truly believe that your fiance is telling you the truth and that he is truly sorry, I would forgive him and move on. That would take a while though and I would definitely be interested in postponing the wedding until the healing is progressing enough.
And I would absolutely fire the best man, and also insist that they have no contact from now on. Strippers won't do that for free, somebody arranged it and paid her, and if you believe your fiance, then I would think it had to be the best man.
Now that is just me. I do wish you the best of luck whatever you do, and I hope you and he are able to find healing soon.
bizonkulous
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887493] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 13:58 |
Archy
Messages: 1161
Registered: March 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA |
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I just want to re-iterate -- no matter what you call 'fucking', he absolutely was exposed to any STDs that woman may have. Please, please be sure to protect yourself.
The Indiebride Vow
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887494] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 13:59 |
LilMissLola
Messages: 268
Registered: February 2008
Location: Northwest |
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edited because I really shouldn't say some things when I'm low on sleep and taking cold meds and therefore paraniod...
[Updated on: Mon, 04 August 2008 01:04]
Lay down, your sweet and weary head. Night is falling. You have come to journey’s end. -Annie Lennox
Waiting for this journey to end and our new one to begin
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887496] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 14:16 |
JessicaW
Messages: 406
Registered: March 2008
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In my experience, penises don't just accidentally slip into vaginas. They are usually placed in the vagina with a hand. Unless of course, the OP's FH has a really tiny penis, or the stripper has a really large vagina.
I think that there is probably a lot more to the story, and your FH crying "rape" is so ludicrous that I can hardly even believe it. His penis penetrated a stripper/prostitute's vagina while his friends stood by and knew what was going on. He then had to come home to retrieve his forgotten ID, face you, and then went back out with these friends who he is pretending to be the instigators of this "rape".
Put yourself in his shoes. If your friends hired some man to come to a party and rape you while they all watched, and you felt so violated afterwards, would you really go back out with them that same night and still consider them to be your closest friends and still ask them to be in your wedding party?
Why has your fiance asked that you not talk about this with your friends? This is a pretty big fucking deal, and one would usually turn to their friends at a time like this. Oh, it's really kind of him to agree to discuss this in counseling with you. What a caring and sensitive guy.
I'm sorry that you were cheated on, but you need to get to the bottom of this. Maybe you could try to get in contact with the stripper and ask her in a reasonable and rational way if she was paid for this "service" and if there was more than just one penetration. If not, there are licensed lie detector administrators in most cities. It is pretty expensive, like 600 dollars I think, but at least that way you would know the truth.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887507] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 15:45 |
LUSHFanatic
Messages: 165
Registered: April 2008
Location: Queens |
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| Jessica Wakefield wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 14:16 |
In my experience, penises don't just accidentally slip into vaginas. They are usually placed in the vagina with a hand. Unless of course, the OP's FH has a really tiny penis, or the stripper has a really large vagina.
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This is almost exactly what I was going to say. I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Does male rape happen? Yes. Did it this time? I highly, HIGHLY doubt that.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 16:09]
9/26/08!!!
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887511] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 15:53 |
dr. s
Messages: 317
Registered: April 2007
Location: UT |
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| Kelilah wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 14:44 |
Am I the only one that doesn't consider this sex? Sexual contact, sure, but if someone climbs on you and you're too confused to stop until your penis slips, and then you push her off and it all stops, I would not consider that sex at all. I definitely wouldn't say that he fucked her if this is indeed what happened.
Maybe he did fuck her and he's lying about all this, maybe he really was violated at his friends' behest. Either is possible. I don't know this guy so it's up to the OP to determine whether he is trustworthy or not.
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HIS PENIS DID NOT "SLIP!" Sorry to yell, but I mean seriously-- how does that even HAPPEN??
Also, the fact that he was, ahem, enough at attention for this scenario to take place means that at some basal level he WAS into it. I'm no expert on male arousal, and I imagine that one can be simultaneously turned on and very uncomfortable in a situation, but this whole scenario still gives me great pause.
Additionally, no one even addressed the fact that he was down to his boxers. Out of curiosity, OP, is that something that bothers you?
And finally, another thought I had... I know it sucks to have to postpone a wedding. But so does the idea of having to be abstinent or at least wearing barrier protection (when you otherwise may not have done so) during the honeymoon.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 15:58]
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887514] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 15:59 |
Flamekat
Messages: 1769
Registered: February 2008
Location: Shanghai |
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| LUSHFanatic wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 15:45 |
| Jessica Wakefield wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 14:16 |
In my experience, penises don't just accidentally slip into vaginas. They are usually placed in the vagina with a hand. Unless of course, the OP's FH has a really tiny penis, or the stripper has a really large vagina.
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This is almost exactly what I was going to say. I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Does male rape happen? Yes. Did it this time? I highly, HIGHLY doubt that.
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I'm also perplexed by the physics with this. Although a hand is not necessarily required, I can't say a penis has ever slipped in my vagina without being very well acquainted with my vulva first. Unless the OP's fiance meant he slipped into the stripper's vulva? Some guys can't tell the difference...
At any rate... I think a man who started to engage in intercourse with a stripper and then came to his senses and pushed her off would probably feel very guilty and awful because he cheated on his fiance. Maybe violated too, but sometimes we violate ourselves. I've definitely experienced a violated feeling after having sex with someone willingly and been thoroughly repulsed by myself and the other person afterwards.
And why were they dancing and kissing anyway?
"I'm going to go eat some blatantly copied steampunk cake." ~ grandsophy
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887517] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 16:04 |
coffeeninja
Messages: 3294
Registered: April 2005
Location: Hotlanta |
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| EnragedNumbness wrote on Fri, 01 August 2008 19:57 |
I've agreed w/ FH not to discuss this with friends - but frankly, I'm too humiliated to do so anyhow.
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I just wanted to comment on this, which I realize is a very small part of the situation. I get not wanting to make this situation the big news among friends and your are embarrassed. It just seems odd that you would not be welcome to discuss this with a close friend. Internet support boards can give you a variety of perspectives but that is not much substitution for support from someone who knows you well.
Whatever ends up happening good luck going forward.
ETA: Re friends: They are also going to know your FH and can speak more to the specifics of personalities.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 16:18]
Fantasy of Being Thin
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887520] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 16:11 |
Kelilah
Messages: 387
Registered: June 2008
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Are y'all saying that you've never had sex without someone taking a hand and stuffing it in? Really? That's baffling to me. If I'm very wet and especially if I'm on top, his penis will go in on its own. If, for example, this stripper had just done a toy show or something else that would have her well-lubricated, and she was on top of him with her legs wide apart, moving around, it is not outside the realm of possibility for his penis to slip out of his fly and into her. Hell, when I lost my virginity I was tight enough to bleed but I still just sat on it with no hands involved.
Of course, it's also possible that he fucked her. Like I said, I have no idea because I wasn't there and I don't know the guy. His fiancee is probably a better judge of his overall character and trustworthiness than any of us.
And I agree that a lot of these angry dismissals of rape claims sound a lot like people telling a female rape victim that she shouldn't have worn that short skirt and parked with a guy if she didn't want sex. It IS certainly possible that this guy was violated (see above re: not knowing him personally).
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 16:12]
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887522] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 16:12 |
LUSHFanatic
Messages: 165
Registered: April 2008
Location: Queens |
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OP:
My FH would like to say this to you. "He knew what he was doing. Did he think THROUGH what he was doing? No. That's the part where the alcohol comes in. But he obviously consented at the very least since he wasn't tied down and was letting himself be grinded on, and probably realized as his penis was in, 'oh shit, what am I doing'. Whether he regrets it now or not, he cheated on her and he should never have put himself in that position."
And I would like to ask you this. Pretend the penetration never happened, just for a second. And then pretend that it wasn't a bachelor party, and she was not a stripper. It's a bar, and a regular girl. And she's kissing his neck, his cheeks, and he's got his hands on her hips when they're dancing. Then he goes into another room with her, gets down to his boxers & she grinds on his hard-on. Would you be ok with THAT? Probably not, so why does the fact that it's a stripper at a bachelor party matter? Personally I feel you were cheated on just by what he ADMITS to, and that's enough for me to say that you need to REALLY think about marrying him next weekend.
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 18:03]
9/26/08!!!
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887524] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 16:26 |
Flamekat
Messages: 1769
Registered: February 2008
Location: Shanghai |
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Kelilah - I agree that penises don't necessarily need hands...but they do need intent. Neither M. Frog nor I have ever experienced accidental "slippage" with each other or anyone else. Not to mention this guy's boxers were on and his penis not only had to "pop out" but then slip in?
Telling a woman she shouldn't have worn a short skirt and parked with a guy is a hell of a lot different then telling a man he shouldn't have had a naked and lubricated woman grinding on his penis and kissing him.
"I'm going to go eat some blatantly copied steampunk cake." ~ grandsophy
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887526] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 16:38 |
Kelilah
Messages: 387
Registered: June 2008
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I'm not denying that he behaved inappropriately. However, I do think it's worth considering alcohol, peer pressure, and possible embarrassment as mitigating factors, and I don't think it's an automatic assumption that he's a cheating shithead (though it is possible).
A female friend of mine has a similar story; her friends "dared" her to fuck a guy in the closet at a party, she didn't want to be seen as the prudish loser so she went into the closet and made out with the guy, then she changed her mind and tried to leave, but he had sex with her anyway until she started crying and then he stopped. Do you consider that rape? I do. Many of her friends didn't, saying that if she didn't want sex then she wouldn't have gone in the closet, and anyway he stopped when she cried. I think it became rape when she first changed her mind and tried to leave, and I think most of you would agree. So if this guy was going along with what his friends wanted, and he can't help being sexually aroused even if he doesn't want it mentally, and he's drunk, I think it makes it an understandable mistake and I don't think it automatically means he was trying to have sex with the woman. And I don't think it means that he has no right to feel violated, if he does.
And no, I do not find it suspicious that he didn't say anything or went back out with his friends. I don't know any heterosexual male who would complain to his buddies about being raped by a hot chick, or who would even think of himself as a rape victim even if he was. I certainly wouldn't expect him to come home and tell his fiancee all about it. I would expect a man to stay quiet, try to go with the flow, and work through his own confusion before opening up to anyone else about it.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887530] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 16:49 |
JessicaW
Messages: 406
Registered: March 2008
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Why do people feel the need to defend the guys who cheat at bachelor parties? It doesn't matter why he had sex with her, he just did. It is up to the OP to decide if she can forgive him and move on, but I don't understand why people keep acting like he had no choice in the matter. For whatever reason, his naked and erect penis was in contact with another woman's naked genitals. For me, it wouldn't really matter whether or not it "slipped" in or if he intentionally put it in, the behavior leading up to the penetration is bad enough.
And, once again, we see another example of what happens when a guy who "isn't really into strippers" and whose fiance had total trust in him is exposed to strippers at his bachelor party.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887531] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 16:51 |
BkBlonde
Messages: 223
Registered: May 2007
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| Kelilah wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 16:38 |
A female friend of mine has a similar story; her friends "dared" her to fuck a guy in the closet at a party, she didn't want to be seen as the prudish loser so she went into the closet and made out with the guy, then she changed her mind and tried to leave, but he had sex with her anyway until she started crying and then he stopped.
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I don't think that is a similar story at all, unless your friend was in her underwear, with her panties pulled to the side, rubbing her naked vulva against his naked penis when she decided to try to leave. Your friend's story is clearly rape, whereas the OP's fiance's story is much more questionable - to me, anyway. What would really throw me, and what I think was upsetting to the OP, was that things got to the point where "slippage" (or what have you) was a possibility. Also, it doesn't really sound to me like alcohol was that big a factor here. Didn't he come back to the house to get his ID at 9pm, and the slippage had already happened? It's possible he was already wasted, but the OP never mentioned him drinking.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887532] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 17:01 |
Kelilah
Messages: 387
Registered: June 2008
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| Jessica Wakefield |
Why do people feel the need to defend the guys who cheat at bachelor parties? It doesn't matter why he had sex with her, he just did.
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Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But the purported slippage described by the OP doesn't sound like sex to me. I guess we all have different definitions of what "counts." At any rate, I am NOT defending cheating, I'm just saying that none of us has any means of knowing whether he cheated or whether he was violated, and either is possible. If he did cheat, it's reprehensible, but if the OP believes him to be a trustworthy and faithful man then he might just actually be a trustworthy and faithful man who fucked up.
| Jessica Wakefield |
For me, it wouldn't really matter whether or not it "slipped" in or if he intentionally put it in, the behavior leading up to the penetration is bad enough.
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That's for you. Not every woman shares your boundaries.
| Jessica Wakefield |
And, once again, we see another example of what happens when a guy who "isn't really into strippers" and whose fiance had total trust in him is exposed to strippers at his bachelor party.
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Yes yes, all strippers are wicked witches who subject your man to their evil powers because they're hell-bent on wrecking relationships. We all know your thoughts on strippers, Jessica. 
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 17:01]
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887533] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 17:04 |
Me
Messages: 1392
Registered: August 2006
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Sun, 24 August 2008 15:17]
Ma'am, trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table!
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887536] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 17:19 |
hmmm
Messages: 654
Registered: November 2006
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I hesitate to post on this topic again, as clearly, and predictably, it has rapidly devolved into the same people saying the same things.
However, I did want to say that it's not really that difficult to squat down on a penis, no hands required.
I really think there is no way of knowing whether her man is telling the truth or not or what specific sex acts occurred. I think that all relationships essentially are based on trusting our partners. If your trust is irrevocably broken, there is no point in continuing the relationship. I truly cannot fathom how some posters are able to be married with this dim view of trust.
I would reiterate what Archy said, please test repeatedly for STDs. Best wishes to you, EnragedNumbness, dealing with his behavior, whether taking him at his word or assuming the worst.
ETA: Poor punctuation
[Updated on: Sat, 02 August 2008 23:25]
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887540] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 17:42 |
JessicaW
Messages: 406
Registered: March 2008
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| Kelilah wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 17:01 |
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. But the purported slippage described by the OP doesn't sound like sex to me. I guess we all have different definitions of what "counts." At any rate, I am NOT defending cheating, I'm just saying that none of us has any means of knowing whether he cheated or whether he was violated, and either is possible. If he did cheat, it's reprehensible, but if the OP believes him to be a trustworthy and faithful man then he might just actually be a trustworthy and faithful man who fucked up.
That's for you. Not every woman shares your boundaries.
Yes yes, all strippers are wicked witches who subject your man to their evil powers because they're hell-bent on wrecking relationships. We all know your thoughts on strippers, Jessica.
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If I remember correctly, you and your husband plan on having an orgy with your wedding party on the night of your wedding, am I correct? You should then, understand that your boundaries are not going to be shared by most people. So, when you come into a post in which the OP expresses her shock that the strippers at the party were completely naked, and try to act like she is overreacting because YOU don't think that it is sex, it just is irrelevant because your sexual boundaries are so out there that it is ridiculous to even assume that this woman who didn't even know that strippers took off all of their clothes might share your views on sex. No offense to you at all, but come on.
I have made my opinion of strippers pretty clear, however, I do not hold the strippers responsible for what they do, nor do I consider them to be home wreckers. They are just doing their job, it is the guy who is to be held accountable for his actions. But, this guy acted like he didn't think that strippers were a big deal, and his fiance felt that she had no reason to worry yet he went ahead and participated in the most foul bachelor party behavior imaginable. So, I feel that when people say that THEIR fiance isn't into strippers, or that they have no reason to worry, that they are just being incredibly naive.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887544] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 18:07 |
LUSHFanatic
Messages: 165
Registered: April 2008
Location: Queens |
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| BkBlonde wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 16:51 |
Didn't he come back to the house to get his ID at 9pm, and the slippage had already happened? It's possible he was already wasted, but the OP never mentioned him drinking.
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That's a big one, to me. If he was "violated" he didn't have to go back out, and I disagree with the proposed reasons for why he did.
| Wonderful Me! wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 17:04 |
3) Feeling disgusted with yourself for misguidedly having sex or sexual contact with the wrong person isn't the same thing as rape
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Agreed, speaking from experience.
I also agree with all of this below, which is pretty much what I was trying to say to the OP in my proposed scenario in my post above.
| Jessica Wakefield wrote on Sat, 02 August 2008 16:49 |
Why do people feel the need to defend the guys who cheat at bachelor parties? It doesn't matter why he had sex with her, he just did. It is up to the OP to decide if she can forgive him and move on, but I don't understand why people keep acting like he had no choice in the matter. For whatever reason, his naked and erect penis was in contact with another woman's naked genitals. For me, it wouldn't really matter whether or not it "slipped" in or if he intentionally put it in, the behavior leading up to the penetration is bad enough.
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9/26/08!!!
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887553] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 18:47 |
Kelilah
Messages: 387
Registered: June 2008
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| Quote: |
If I remember correctly, you and your husband plan on having an orgy with your wedding party on the night of your wedding, am I correct?
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Not the wedding party, no. Just our officiant, her husband, and a couple of other friends. 
| Quote: |
You should then, understand that your boundaries are not going to be shared by most people. So, when you come into a post in which the OP expresses her shock that the strippers at the party were completely naked, and try to act like she is overreacting because YOU don't think that it is sex...
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Whoa, I NEVER said she was overreacting. I think some of the other women in this thread are quick to denounce him as a cheater when it's not a given that he cheated. I do not consider that a man has had sex with a woman if she sat on his dick and he pushed her off - that just isn't sex to me, and I'm baffled that it *is* to some of you. And yes, I am well aware that my boundaries are outside the norm, but that doesn't mean I don't respect other people's boundaries or that I think cheating is no big deal. I AM NOT DEFENDING A CHEATER, merely pointing out the possibility that he may not have cheated. Unless, of course, you come from a country where an assault victim is considered an adultress.
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So, I feel that when people say that THEIR fiance isn't into strippers, or that they have no reason to worry, that they are just being incredibly naive.
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A man who is completely faithful and monogamous cannot be induced to cheat by the mere presence of a stripper. It can be extremely difficult for men to say no to a naked woman, but they are completely capable of doing so. I don't think it's naive if a woman knows her man's character and trusts him.
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| Re: Confused, betrayed; the usual concoction of post-bachelor gone wrong [message #887570] |
Sat, 02 August 2008 20:21 |
LUSHFanatic
Messages: 165
Registered: April 2008
Location: Queens |
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Just read the entire thread to my FH and he has one final bit of advice for OP: "Is he still talking to his Best Man? That will tell you all you need to know.
If that had somehow happened to me, I would be so livid that my Best Man had either arranged or allowed for an incident which jeopardized the future of my entire marriage that he would be immediately barred from the wedding, and my life. So if he and his Best Man seem to be getting on & speaking, you have your answer."
9/26/08!!!
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